Fill in the gaps

I feel 4E still has some mechanical gaps to fill. Some necessary ones, some to fill out a cycle, some because why not. A couple of examples:

- Battleminds need an MBA and other defender powers besides Lightning Rush and Lodestone Lure.
- Knight and Berserker hybrid
- Additional Blackguard vices
- Ways for E-strikers to meet striker benchmarks (30/60/90 damage per round, and an encounter nova that kills a standard monster on average)
- Additional Sentinel seasons
- Support for newer races

What I'm interested in, and what I hope this forum can help with, is filling these mechanical gaps. In other words, let's produce more content! Are people interested in helping out with this?

I already have an idea for a way to make the Vampire an actual striker, which I'll post in another thread soon to get the ball rolling.

Considering I've been rebuilding quite a few aspects of the game for my table, I can throw down on this. It will definitely help with my own work too

I'd be happy to try and stat out anything you might need.

That said I've not had any problems with the scout/slayer/hexblade hitting the dpr targets you mentioned (my level eight scout is hitting around 31 dpr with my at-wills (EDIT: forgot to account for hit rate against an even level monster when I said about 40 dpr) and a level 17 slayer in another game is easily the biggest hitter in the party (I've seen him dish out nearly 200 damage in a single turn with an action point) so I'm not quite certain what needs to be added to them.

By the same token, 30/60/90 is a LOT higher than any numbers I've heard from the WotC CharOps boards. 20/40/60 damage per round at levels 10/20/30 with at-wills is the benchmark I've heard bandied about for striker damage on CharOps.

Here's a WotC CharOps discussion on it for reference...

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Chris24601 wrote:

That said I've not had any problems with the scout/slayer/hexblade hitting the dpr targets you mentioned (my level eight scout is hitting around 31 dpr with my at-wills (EDIT: forgot to account for hit rate against an even level monster when I said about 40 dpr) and a level 17 slayer in another game is easily the biggest hitter in the party (I've seen him dish out nearly 200 damage in a single turn with an action point) so I'm not quite certain what needs to be added to them.

When I said E-strikers I was referring more to classes like the Vampire and the Blackguard. It's true that the classes you mention can manage fine. But most E-strikers, apart from the Slayer and Scout, also have nova problems.

Chris24601 wrote:

By the same token, 30/60/90 is a LOT higher than any numbers I've heard from the WotC CharOps boards. 20/40/60 damage per round at levels 10/20/30 with at-wills is the benchmark I've heard bandied about for striker damage on CharOps.

Here's a WotC CharOps discussion on it for reference...

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Thanks, I might've remembered wrong. OTOH, those numbers are more than 4 years old. Optimization has matured, so it could well be that the numbers have increased by now.

Another good rule of thumb for at-will DPR benchmarks is:

- Minimum: kill a standard in 4 rounds
- Optimized: kill a standard in 3 rounds
- Overpowered: kill a standard in 2 rounds
- Broken: kill a standard each round

svendj wrote:

Another good rule of thumb for at-will DPR benchmarks is:

- Minimum: kill a standard in 4 rounds
- Optimized: kill a standard in 3 rounds
- Overpowered: kill a standard in 2 rounds
- Broken: kill a standard each round

I like rule of thumbs that are translate-able and approachable like that.

Do they have something like that for Defenders and other roles?

Those striker benchmark numbers may be "out dated", but remember Monster HP totals have come down now as well. So that sort of evens out.

Things I think need attention

General to start, everything from PHB 3 needs support

More focused
Runepriest-More support in all ways (feats, powers, Paragon Paths)
Artificer-More support in all ways (feats, powers, Paragon Paths)
Seeker-More support in all ways (feats, powers, Paragon Paths)
Sorcerer-A handful of good Paragon Paths
Warlock-A few Paragon Paths for specific pacts (Infernal and Sorc King mostly)


For now that's what I would add to the list of "things that need some gaps filled."

Rune Priest patch I had considered was allowing them to be considered a Cleric for free.

In a similar vein I think some flexibility like opening existing Paragon Paths to more classes doesnt hurt. Some of the restrictions seem designed to propagate the selling of books.. for instance I can take BloodMage by its current flavor and apply it very well to many many classes and reflavor a bit and give it to others.

Speaking of classes that need Paragon Paths: Avenger and Monk.

Neither have really have a "great" choice, and some of their best choices are Cleric paths. I like the idea of opening up Paragon Paths a bit. Maybe make it a choice of stats? Highest stat?

cyvaris wrote:

Speaking of classes that need Paragon Paths: Avenger and Monk.

Neither have really have a "great" choice, and some of their best choices are Cleric paths. I like the idea of opening up Paragon Paths a bit. Maybe make it a choice of stats? Highest stat?

Themes and Paragon Paths pretty much are the same elements I mentioned an idea of merging the two... it might involve rewriting the PP very much like they were themes.