Centaurs...

anyone have 4e rules they would use for a centaur race?

here is one I found (Originally Posted by NecroRebel ) It actually looks somewhat decent?

Ability Scores: +2 CON, choice of +2 STR or DEX
Size: Large
Speed: 8 squares
Senses: Low-light vision

Languages: Common, Elven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Nature, +2 Athletics

Slight Build: You wield equipment as though you were a Medium creature. In addition, you may squeeze into Medium spaces with half the normal penalty, and may squeeze into Small spaces with the normal penalty.
Horse Form: You gain an additional magic item slot that may be used to equip Mount-slot items. In addition, your light and heavy load and maximum drag capacities are doubled. When an attack would knock you prone, you can immediately make a saving throw to avoid falling prone.
Fey Origin: Your ancestors were native to the Feywild, so you are considered a fey creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.

Racial Power: Reflexive Kick
At-Will
Immediate Reaction - Melee 1
Trigger: A creature moves into a square where it flanks you.
Target: The triggering creature.
Attack: Strength or Dexterity +4 (+6 at level 11, +8 at level 21) vs, AC
Hit: 1d6 + Strength or Dexterity damage.

Not bad shot at it. I think I would make the power just str or dex vs reflex(+2,+4 at 11,21 respectively), up the damage to 2d8 + str or dex and make it an encounter power.
Maybe add something for over land speed.
TjD

Not sure CON is actually as good story wise as Dex /Strength + Wis.... Humans actually have better stamina than Horses However some of the Centaurs were mentor archetypes and not particularly wise.. or known for holding their liquor... etc.

I had considered for my take using something like it also takes horses longer to reach there maximum running speed in real life ... ie they arent necessarily faster when changing directions and dodging about ... but they can get up to a higher speed if you don't catch them fairly quickly (and no it doesnt last incredibly long either)

Not sure how you might implement that in game terms

Garthanos wrote:

I had considered for my take using something like it also takes horses longer to reach there maximum running speed in real life ...  ie they arent necessarily faster when changing directions and dodging about ... but they can get up to a higher speed if you don't catch them fairly quickly (and no it doesnt last incredibly long either)

Not sure how you might implement that in game terms

Hmmm, its hard to phrase it in simple 4e terms. What you want is something that says "if you moved more than 5 squares on your last turn, increase your speed by 2" or something like that. Then give them a base speed of 6. Though actually, for a sprint, horses are about 2x faster than a human.

I agree about the ability scores, CON is NOT something that horses are known for, they are rather delicate actually, as animals go. WIS I'd call a good choice, maybe DEX with WIS/STR as optionals.

I'd also drop the attempt to mitigate large size, they're large, that has a LOT of positives in 4e, and some negatives, let it stand. Then give them a benefit with bows, which is a very traditional Centaur thing.

AbdulAlhazred wrote:

Garthanos wrote:

I had considered for my take using something like it also takes horses longer to reach there maximum running speed in real life ...  ie they arent necessarily faster when changing directions and dodging about ... but they can get up to a higher speed if you don't catch them fairly quickly (and no it doesnt last incredibly long either)

Not sure how you might implement that in game terms

Hmmm, its hard to phrase it in simple 4e terms. What you want is something that says "if you moved more than 5 squares on your last turn, increase your speed by 2" or something like that. Then give them a base speed of 6. Though actually, for a sprint, horses are about 2x faster than a human.

Yeah, a human can catch em... but not after they get up to speed. (I also thought vaguely about an encounter utility power to 2x)

AbdulAlhazred wrote:

I'd also drop the attempt to mitigate large size, they're large, that has a LOT of positives in 4e, and some negatives, let it stand. Then give them a benefit with bows, which is a very traditional Centaur thing.

Nods yes that was where I was going with having Dex on the list actually (perhaps giving them the Elven bit about being naturally trained with them.)

Right, Centaurs seem pretty 'fey' to me and could be pretty closely aligned to the elves.

I am thinking always counts as mounted unless prone.

Quadruped extra save to avoid proning... but make harder to un prone.

Nah, PC's prone quadrupedal creature all the time. I'd just let it slide. Prone doesn't necessarily mean on your back anyway.

How do you handle another PC riding on the back of the centaur PC? You know it's gonna happen.
TjD

Garthanos wrote:

I am thinking always counts as mounted unless prone.

Not sure what that would mean in this context. You can't 'dismount' a centaur, so there's no real effect, is there? All the other mounted rules involve how to 'blend' the spaces of the mount and rider, and their combined action economy, both of which come out in the wash.

As for the 'issue' of another PC riding the Centaur, I'd just handle it by giving them each their separate action economy and otherwise following the mounted rules. This was an option presented in DMG1 for monsters, though it seems to have kind of disappeared in all subsequent discussions of mounted combat. The basic combined action economy rules are fine for riding your horse or whatnot, it doesn't really have much in the way of practical actions to take, and any that do exist can be handled as a power, but for a PC on another PC or say a lich riding a dragon, they should both get their actions.

Durriken wrote:

Nah, PC's prone quadrupedal creature all the time.  I'd just let it slide.  Prone doesn't necessarily mean on your back anyway.

sure it would be reasonable to ignore though I was more thinking as a benefit for a pc being harder to prone could be a pretty nice flavor effect.

Durriken wrote:

How do you handle another PC riding on the back of the centaur PC?  You know it's gonna happen.
TjD

Not thinking there are special rules for two pcs on the same mount?... One could give the Centaur impaired defenses for such encumbrance.

AbdulAlhazred wrote:

Garthanos wrote:

I am thinking always counts as mounted unless prone.

Not sure what that would mean in this context. You can't 'dismount' a centaur, so there's no real effect, is there? All the other mounted rules involve how to 'blend' the spaces of the mount and rider, and their combined action economy, both of which come out in the wash.

Cavalier Theme is an example where powers only work if mounted...

Garthanos wrote:

AbdulAlhazred wrote:

Garthanos wrote:

I am thinking always counts as mounted unless prone.

Not sure what that would mean in this context. You can't 'dismount' a centaur, so there's no real effect, is there? All the other mounted rules involve how to 'blend' the spaces of the mount and rider, and their combined action economy, both of which come out in the wash.
 

Cavalier Theme is an example where powers only work if mounted...

Right, I just thought you meant "use mounted rules all the time to represent the centaur itself", which doesn't really make sense does it?

Anyway, they could be harder to knock prone, having 4 legs. OTOH I think we have a rather large list of attributes at this point.

There's being Fey, elvish language, the Bow, the 'go faster', and being large, oh and the kick. I'm satisfied with that.

I suppose the Dex bonus is the Centaur Archer stereotype but i am thinking now Str + Dex/Wisdom. A wize archer should go the Zen archer route

Well, yeah, that's the classic centaur, wis and a good archer. I'd say the model includes strong and perhaps hardy as well, but you gotta pick your choices... In that sense it seems like WIS is their most classical feature, maybe WIS + STR/DEX.

Heck, at this point do we really even need to stick narrowly to these types of 4e conventions?

Maybe I'm just different, but I picture centaur as spear and club users more than bow users. Clubs suck, so spears and bows? Is it wrong that I love the thought of a centaur charging with a spear more than an archer centaur?

TjD

Durriken wrote:

Maybe I'm just different, but I picture centaur as spear and club users more than bow users.  Clubs suck, so spears and bows?  Is it wrong that I love the thought of a centaur charging with a spear more than an archer centaur?  

TjD

I agree. I think the spear and bow are the good choices for weapons. Of course, the 1e MM had a centaur with a club on the cover, so an argument could be made for that.

I think in Greek mythology they were simply masters of the typical Greek weapons, which would be bow, spear, and maybe a sword, but the spear was the sort of the archetypal weapon, it shows up as the standard one in the Illiad for sure.

AbdulAlhazred wrote:

I think in Greek mythology they were simply masters of the typical Greek weapons, which would be bow, spear, and maybe a sword, but the spear was the sort of the archetypal weapon, it shows up as the standard one in the Illiad for sure.

That's true. In my mind, the image of a centaur that always seems to come up is a somewhat tribalistic creature with a spear in hand, decorated with some strips of cloth to indicate its position in the tribe, and a bow and quiver slung across the back, ready for action if necessary.

skwyd42 wrote:

AbdulAlhazred wrote:

I think in Greek mythology they were simply masters of the typical Greek weapons, which would be bow, spear, and maybe a sword, but the spear was the sort of the archetypal weapon, it shows up as the standard one in the Illiad for sure.

That's true. In my mind, the image of a centaur that always seems to come up is a somewhat tribalistic creature with a spear in hand, decorated with some strips of cloth to indicate its position in the tribe, and a bow and quiver slung across the back, ready for action if necessary.

Yeah, if you go search for images, most of the classical depictions are either archers or spearmen. I couldn't really find any armed in another way in period art. Nowadays you will find some images of clubs and such, maybe a scimitar. There are a few period images with a shield as well.

Truthfully though, most of them are unarmed. In myth the Centaurs are a tribe that is at war with a human tribe nearby, the Lapiths. They are depicted as rather unruly and the war starts when they try to steal all the Lapith women.

There are also a few stories of horned centaurs from Crete, and a few pictures of winged ones too.

I am going to see if I can make a CBloader Part file with a Centaur in it

Don't make me think that I could start adding custom stuff to CBloader... As much as I'd like to, I just don't know enough about how to do it.

skwyd42 wrote:

Don't make me think that I could start adding custom stuff to CBloader... As much as I'd like to, I just don't know enough about how to do it.

Some things are pretty easy others not so much...

Learn by copying elements in existing parts and tweak them.

Garthanos wrote:

skwyd42 wrote:

Don't make me think that I could start adding custom stuff to CBloader... As much as I'd like to, I just don't know enough about how to do it.

Some things are pretty easy others not so much...

Learn by copying elements in existing parts and tweak them.

The thing is, I don't even know where to start. Do I just add to an existing .part file? Do I make a new one? I don't even know the bare minimum of how to go about doing it.