What's worse, Lazy DMs or Lazy Players?

Which do you think is worse? I think hands down lazy players are worse than a lazy DM. Lazy players drag the game down and often just don't care about the game. They simply want magic gear and items.

How do you define a "lazy DM" and a "lazy player"? Anyone who sits at the table but doesn't care about what is going on is going to drag the game down, but that's not necessarily lazy as much as disengaged.
Disengaged is not total the fault of the player. If the DM is not providing compelling reasons to progress the story, player involvement wains.
If the DM is disengaged, we might as well play a board game or card game.

TjD

Most annoying for me is the player who is constantly on their smart phone. Checking it due to a family/work-related call/text or to look up a rule or relevant bit of background information. Spending the entire evening looking at Facebook, playing Angry Birds or looking up random demotivational posters and insisting on sharing them with everyone at the table the moment you find one that tickles your fancy makes we want to throw books at people.

It gets even worse when they bring an actual laptop to the table with the claim that they have their character on it, then are actually watching YouTube videos or playing an MMO while the game is going on. Only the GM ever actually seems to use a laptop to enhance rather than detract from a game session (easier hp/condition tracking, monster stat blocks, access to reference material, etc.).

Durriken wrote:

How do you define a "lazy DM" and a "lazy player"?  Anyone who sits at the table but doesn't care about what is going on is going to drag the game down, but that's not necessarily lazy as much as disengaged.  
Disengaged is not total the fault of the player.  If the DM is not providing compelling reasons to progress the story, player involvement wains.  
If the DM is disengaged, we might as well play a board game or card game.

TjD

Sorry it was late when I posted this. I should've elaborated.

What I mean by a lazy player is a player that refuses to get involved in the game. One who only responds to the game with "What do I need to roll" and never puts any more thought into their character than the feats they choose. The smart phone thing irritates me as well.

And a lazy DM to me is one that almost uses 0 prep and puts little thought into the game and how it's going to work.

I honestly think a lazy player is worse. It's not the DM's job alone to entertain players. It's supposed to be collaborative. I've had some players down right refuse to make up a character background. They say that character backgrounds are my job. I think the more the playrs are involved them more the DM is willing to put into a game. Or at least that's the case with me.

Chris24601 wrote:

Most annoying for me is the player who is constantly on their smart phone. Checking it due to a family/work-related call/text or to look up a rule or relevant bit of background information. Spending the entire evening looking at Facebook, playing Angry Birds or looking up random demotivational posters and insisting on sharing them with everyone at the table the moment you find one that tickles your fancy makes we want to throw books at people.

It gets even worse when they bring an actual laptop to the table with the claim that they have their character on it, then are actually watching YouTube videos or playing an MMO while the game is going on. Only the GM ever actually seems to use a laptop to enhance rather than detract from a game session (easier hp/condition tracking, monster stat blocks, access to reference material, etc.).

Agreed 100%.

id have to say they both suck.

i DM at encounter at a game store for over a year. id get players playing video games on laptops, reading books, playing on cell phones, you name it. in my mind im like why are you here? the best is someone with headphone in listening to music, i had a player do that.

for lazy DM iv seen a few of those to. home games with no prep, nothing extra to make their game great, my little pony figures for mosters. DM who alter monster to make them impossible to beat, or DM who cheat's. a DM who is running a game that is the avatar/eragon movie to a "T".

you see a lot of stuff at public play, let me tell you. one time we had to table and the other DM skipped out, well the back up was to shy to run a game. so i had to run a table with 21 people, 4E. i did my best to make it threw and not let people take 25 minute turns, those kinda people suck.

If using a published adventure, like with the late Encounters, a DM who has done no prep can definitely ruin the game. In a more free form, improve game too much DM prep can make the game feel wrong - on rails vs sandbox.
Lazy un-engaged players are bad all the time.

And what's wrong with my little pony for monsters? I have exactly 0 miniatures designed for D&D. I use board game pieces, travel chess, buttons, coins, lots of lego (my kids love making custom lego figures for their characters), fp little people (the little ones from the 70's and 80's, not the fat anti-swallow ones), glass beads, dice, candy (candy minions are great - you eat what you kill!), and tokens. The tokens (MV, DM kit...) can be specific but other than that they are just markers and the players need to use imagination. No one I play with ever complained. I show them a picture or describe the monsters then put the marker on the map.
Not all of us can afford lots of kit for our games.

TjD

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:

Which do you think is worse? I think hands down lazy players are worse than a lazy DM. Lazy players drag the game down and often just don't care about the game. They simply want magic gear and items.

Lazy players - particularly the kind that almost want to be railroaded because they aren't interested in creating a narrative.

its funny to say a lazy DM could run a encounter's group with no prep. iv seen it tried and boy was that a long and bad experience. DM's need to prep for an adventure. if its their own adventure they can make stuff up, because they had the idea in their head its their vision.

if its a pre gen encounter from WOTC its not that easy to make stuff up or the story line and plot are shot. and the new encounter adventures allow for more character personalization of the encounter, but they are given more paths, not just one as old encounter do. the player still pick paths set out by the encounter, but its not a straight line anymore.

me personally i enjoy a game were a DM puts the work it, you can tell. if they use the correct mini's or fine the correct tokens. if they add flair to the game, some will use mood music. some puzzles and games. but i enjoy that better than fight a monopoly man or a my little pony, or a candy man. im glad it works for you and your game. some people cant afford or for what ever reason do it other ways. in no way does this make your game any less a game than mine or others. some choose to go the extra mile, that's what i do, that's what i like. if you DM'ed at encounters as you imply you may have  bin given a basic token set, those say monster 1 and monster 2. they are free. some people use them. the new pathfinder tokens are real cheap. so their are other options.

but the whole point is to enjoy yourself and play the game. and in no way do i think im better or my game is better than yours. we play different that's all. in fact iv run battle grid less, no map combat 4E.

for my group's its about role-playing, my mind is used way more than my mini....

I've been guilty of being a lazy DM, and I've had lazy players. Either one will kill a campaign right quick.

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:

I've had some players down right refuse to make up a character background. They say that character backgrounds are my job.

lolwut? Would have been my response.

I don't even know how a player could arrive at that opinion, unless he's just making it up 'cause he doesn't want to write a background.  

Tequila Sunrise wrote:

I've been guilty of being a lazy DM, and I've had lazy players. Either one will kill a campaign right quick.

Felorn Gloryaxe wrote:

I've had some players down right refuse to make up a character background. They say that character backgrounds are my job.

lolwut? Would have been my response.

I don't even know how a player could arrive at that opinion, unless he's just making it up 'cause he doesn't want to write a background.  

it seems like in my group im into coming up with background for my character history, and the rest of the group has a few idea's in their head but usual don't share them, or if they do its just little bits. one time i had a friend and fellow player who wonted me to role dice to see what he was will to tell me about his character, what ever (i didn't role dice).